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Arthur LeBrun
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Orange, California
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 Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:46 am Post subject: 4 x 5 movie film |
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I have a contact print of two 4 x 5 b&w movie film frames with the code
AC 43 52342 in one of 3 perforations.
Can anyone identify the film and any camera(s) that might have used it?
Image date is 1961. |
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sevo
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 34
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Movie? If so, not from any camera (70mm was the widest ever used for movie, at least past the early experimental stage). But trick cameras or optical (effects) copy benches sometimes can/could use 4x5 and bigger intermediates to make matting and retouching easier. |
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Arthur LeBrun
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Orange, California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| sevo wrote: | | Movie? If so, not from any camera (70mm was the widest ever used for movie, at least past the early experimental stage). But trick cameras or optical (effects) copy benches sometimes can/could use 4x5 and bigger intermediates to make matting and retouching easier. |
I have seen and printed 70mm but this film is 5 inches wide apparently
with no perforations (code I mentioned in perforation "pattern" is on film).
I have seen this film before on spools and it is just like movie film but no
perforations. I would like to post an image but cannot. Apparently the
Hulcher camera could run this size film. |
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Henry
Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1644
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Kodak made 5"-wide roll film on spools for use in aero cameras. I remember it listed in a Kodak professional products guide that I have somewhere around here. I'm very doubtful whether they still make it. You can always go to the Kodak web site and poke around for info there. |
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Arthur LeBrun
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Orange, California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry wrote: | | Kodak made 5"-wide roll film on spools for use in aero cameras. I remember it listed in a Kodak professional products guide that I have somewhere around here. I'm very doubtful whether they still make it. You can always go to the Kodak web site and poke around for info there. |
Thanks - I will try that although as I recall I had no luck there before
looking up 70mm films. I did find a site listing discontinued films by name
and number but no actual details as to type, size and length. |
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sevo
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 34
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Hulchers were/are sequence cameras - some of their smaller ones could be ordered with modidifations to achieve 25fps or more, but I have never heard of a 4x5" which did.
Sevo |
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Arthur LeBrun
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Orange, California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| sevo wrote: | Hulchers were/are sequence cameras - some of their smaller ones could be ordered with modidifations to achieve 25fps or more, but I have never heard of a 4x5" which did.
Sevo |
Thanks - I am stabbing in the dark about Hulcher for larger sizes above
70mm. Hoping to learn all the answers someday - cameras and film.
I am pretty certain about sequence cameras using large film - I have
seen 5-in and 9-inch films (the 9-inch was aerial recon film). |
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Henry
Joined: 09 May 2001
Posts: 1644
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| OK, got it. From 1999 Kodak Professional Photographic Catalog, p. 15: Kodak Plus-X Aerographic Film 2402, cat. no. 165 3351, rolls 5 in. x 150 ft., Spec No. 991, Price per Roll $174.30. On 4-mil ESTAR base, medium speed (ISO A 200), fine grain. They also list a 70mm x 150 ft. infrared film (Aerographic 2424). All of the other films listed are 9-1/2" wide. Only ten years ago, Kodak was making a great number of film sizes. HTH. |
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Arthur LeBrun
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Orange, California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Henry wrote: | | OK, got it. From 1999 Kodak Professional Photographic Catalog, p. 15: Kodak Plus-X Aerographic Film 2402, cat. no. 165 3351, rolls 5 in. x 150 ft., Spec No. 991, Price per Roll $174.30. On 4-mil ESTAR base, medium speed (ISO A 200), fine grain. They also list a 70mm x 150 ft. infrared film (Aerographic 2424). All of the other films listed are 9-1/2" wide. Only ten years ago, Kodak was making a great number of film sizes. HTH. |
Thanks for the information, Henry. I would like to get complete Kodak
product catalogs from 1958-1966 for my references. I do have some old
data booklets.
I used to stock Kodak film and paper in a retail store 1965-1967. Never
had so much fun learning that era's products (and touching all the
cameras!) Dupont and Agfa were major paper competitors to Kodak. |
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sevo
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 34
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Arthur LeBrun wrote: |
Thanks - I will try that although as I recall I had no luck there before
looking up 70mm films. |
IIRC you will have to call Kodak - these were always handled through a Kodak sales rep.
5" aerial backs weren't used in aviation only, but used to have some popularity in the 50's and 60's among large studios doing mail-order catalogue production and similar high throughput bulk jobs - Linhof even had preconfigured cameras for these applications.
But by the time I did internships in one such catalogue place in the early eighties, the 4x5" backs had already been replaced by 70mm.
Sevo |
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Arthur LeBrun
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Orange, California
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| sevo wrote: | | Arthur LeBrun wrote: |
Thanks - I will try that although as I recall I had no luck there before
looking up 70mm films. |
IIRC you will have to call Kodak - these were always handled through a Kodak sales rep.
5" aerial backs weren't used in aviation only, but used to have some popularity in the 50's and 60's among large studios doing mail-order catalogue production and similar high throughput bulk jobs - Linhof even had preconfigured cameras for these applications.
But by the time I did internships in one such catalogue place in the early eighties, the 4x5" backs had already been replaced by 70mm.
Sevo |
Thank you for the 70mm information and the commercial use of film backs. All the studios in my area did 8 x 10 film portraits - holders and
all (Hollywood). |
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camz
Joined: 15 Apr 2004
Posts: 138
Location: Southern CA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 3:48 am Post subject: |
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| It might help to know the subject on the film. Was the subject scientific? Large-format film was used for process shots. |
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Arthur LeBrun
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Orange, California
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 4:25 am Post subject: |
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| camz wrote: | | It might help to know the subject on the film. Was the subject scientific? Large-format film was used for process shots. |
The subject was a USAF Titan I ICBM test launch at Cape Canaveral
1960-1961. I did not see any way to upload the image so as to illustrate
the film appearance. |
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sevo
Joined: 18 Oct 2008
Posts: 34
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Arthur LeBrun wrote: |
The subject was a USAF Titan I ICBM test launch at Cape Canaveral
1960-1961. |
Well, in that case, the camera IS rocket science. 
Seriously though, the NASA had access to technology and budgets magnitudes beyond the largest Hollywood studios - chances are that a classified spy grade recon camera was involved.
Sevo |
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Arthur LeBrun
Joined: 29 Aug 2008
Posts: 16
Location: Orange, California
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| sevo wrote: | | Arthur LeBrun wrote: |
The subject was a USAF Titan I ICBM test launch at Cape Canaveral
1960-1961. |
Well, in that case, the camera IS rocket science.
Seriously though, the NASA had access to technology and budgets magnitudes beyond the largest Hollywood studios - chances are that a classified spy grade recon camera was involved.
Sevo |
In those days I suspect lots of standard equipment was used since
aerial recon cameras in large format were available. I know there
were 4 x 5 cameras (sequential?) in quartz housings, single shot 4 x 5 Speed Graphics in groups and high speed 70mm Hulchers plus who
knows what else for engineering data. Spy satellite recon cameras were in their infancy and a different design although any advances they had might have been used in missile photography. Still have much to learn! |
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