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[bwphoto1]

Is anyone knowledgeable in the operation of this holder? It was mfg. by Singer, I have misplaced the instruction book. Pulled it out yesterday to make a portrait w/my Littman Single 4x5 but was dismayed to find that the spacing is geared for 6x6 not the opening of 6x7 (on the back graflok plate). The dial on the advance lever indicates '10' not '16' on a standard roll of 120 film! Is this really a 6x6 holder with a 6x7 opening? Please advise

[Henry]

Hope I'm understanding your problem correctly.
You should indeed get 10 exposures on a roll of 120 with 6x7. With 6x6 it's 12, 6x9 = 8. If you shot a roll with an RH10 (6x7) holder and your images overlap, then there is a problem with the holder mechanism (OR see below). Lots of us have experienced this annoying tendency with the Graflex (Graphic) roll holders. In my experience, the problem is almost always due to careless loading of the film; just a little bit off one way or the other with the initial arrow lineup can lead to overlap (or, OTOH, stretch, i.e., wide gaps). These roll film holders seem to have individual personalities in this regard. It may require some experimentation on your part to discover the best way to line up the arrows. Waste a roll of film, load it, remove dark slide, mark each frame outline on the film as you advance the lever. Rewind the film onto original spool (this is the trickiest part!) and run through the procedure again (and again, etc.) until you find a correlation between the original arrow line-up relationships and the frame spacing. When you find one that works for you, make a note of the details on a sticky-note and paste it inside the holder as a reminder.

[45PSS]

Why hastle with all the sidestepping of the real problem. Disassemble the gear train, clean it, lube it, and reassemble and be done with it. True there will be a slight varration between frame spaces ie 1/32 to 1/16 inch difference, but.....no big deal.
The beauity of Graflex corp roll holders is that the only difference in mechanical make up is the number of teeth on the gears so a service manual for a RH 8 will work for a RH10 who's manual will work for a RH12 or a RH20. The reverse is true also.
Charles

_________________
Graflex Corp.was a supporter of Rain Forest Devastation.

[ This Message was edited by: 45PSS on 2006-02-12 19:41 ]

[bwphoto1]

Thanks for your replies, I was able to straighten out the apparent film slippage in the holder. Two sig. things, first was to clean and lub. the gears in the advance mech. and second was to take a roll of film and mark where each frame occurs to find the 'best' start point is. Bingo, doing these corrected the issue. Reshot the portrait and some of the egg has been removed from my face! Thank you.

[Henry]

See, two heads are better than one! Now I'm curious: did you disassemble the works to do the clean/lube, or spritz some kind of magic substance in there? (I often wondered if the kind of electronic tuner cleaner/lube sold at the Shack would work on our equipment.) Details, please, on the what and the how.

[troublemaker]

Henry,
careful with electronic type cleaners; some can really do damage to the plastics used to manufacture the holders
SA

[45PSS]

I haven't any problems with:
A). LPS Electro Contact Cleaner part number 03116.
B). CRC QD Electronic Cleaner number 05102.( my prefered cleaner)

I have not used any Radio Shack Contact cleaners in 20 years. Avoid those with lubericant, its easy to over lube before getting the part clean.

As far as Roll Holders are concerned I Disassemble them, clean, lube, then reassemble.
Anyone wanting a copy of either the RH20 or RH50 service manuals from General Precision ownership of Graflex in the mid '60's may contact me via the private message function for terms (not an ad).

_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

[troublemaker]

Some contact cleaners are plastic safe and say so on the can, others don not, and I or anyone else should test first. On the other hand, what used to be known by many names including electrical (not electronic) equipments and or parts cleaner, will melt something like a Graflex roll holder, though I believe it is no longer manufactured. It is the same product mentioned and used widely by many industries, and listed in Graflex repair literaure for cleaning shutter parts. I am not sure I am spelling this right, but many will recognize the chemeical solution as 1,1,1, trichloerethane. It cleans and dries metal shutter blades as well as it destroys plastic ones. And if I am not mistaken, nothing damaged the ozone faster. Back in my precission assembly days the place I worked for, as I learned later many shops, had drums of the stuff... Used to be what was in brake cleaner too and Rapid-Tap and on and on.
OK good night

[bwphoto1]

What I actually did to repair the 'slippage' of the film was to remove the two small screws of the advance lever spool. Then to remove the lever exposing the take up gears, they were quite caked with dried grease/crud. Suggest not using any kind of caustic cleaner, instead slip the gears off the stems and then clean them with cleaner, this exposes the inside of the gear housing to be cleaned with a cotton swab.(Note: the entire gear housing spool can be removed by lifting off main spindle but getting the 'rachet' cog back in place can be a little tricky, just turn clockwise as you press on and it will go right in place). Slip the gears back on the stems and lightly lub them with a white grease. Should be good to go unless something is damaged further but there is not much else to go wrong with this unit.

[Henry]

Very good description. Glad your problem was solved so easily. I've had that lever mechanism cover off and also removed the two little gears, but hesitated to go any further even though I own the service manual with all the exploded views. If any of my holders start misbehaving I'll try your approach first. Thanks for the info.

[45PSS]

[bwphoto1]

Thanks Troublemaker, you are right I looked at the screws securing the top housing under the takeup lever and noticed it had 'red' sealant on the screws and decided not to go there. Instead wimped out and went with the top-cap take-up spool disassembly et.al and I was lucky, it worked.