Graflex.org

DenisP · Joined: 14 Oct 2002 Posts: 43 Location: Croatia, Europe

I have an unusual Pacemaker Speed 2x3, with Graflex back (with 2 movable sliders top and bottom) - and just one RFH for it (says "23 Graflex" on the back).

Photos of the kit can be seen here:
https://picasaweb.google.com/100736164452903885244/PacemakerSpeedGraphic23

Now, this is a rather unusual combo, but I'd like to have another roll back for it - any size (6x6, 6x7, 6x9, doesn't really matter, as long as I have a spare....).
I've been loking at 2x3 Graphic roll holders, and as far as I can see, the only difference is that mine ("Graflex") has a rib and a groove, and "Graphic" roll backs have two ribs.
Could someone more knowledgeable confirm that, if I get a "Graphic" roll holder and file off the rib closer to the film opening, and route a groove of the appropriate depth in its place, I would for all practical purposes, turn it into a "Graflex" back, and could use it on my camera?
Those "2x3 Graflex" roll backs are rare as hen's teeth, and when they do come up, they tend to be quite expensive

Glaflex backs aren't cheap, either, but they're still a lot cheaper, so perhaps I could modify one to fit my camera?
Any info or suggestion appreciated

Regards,

Denis

Dan Fromm · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 2144 Location: New Jersey

I can't confirm that you can convert a roll holder made to fit a 2x3 Graflok back into one that will fit a 2x3 Graflex back. I can, though, advise you to be patient.

I found a couple of 2x3 Graflex (for 2x3 Graflex backs) roll holders on eBay, bought them for reasonable prices, after I got a 2x3 Graflex SLR with, naturally, Graflex back. It took a month of looking carefully at every listing for knob wind roll holders to fit 2x3 cameras. They're out there, often misidentified and poorly described.

Sorry to give you so little immediate comfort, good luck,

Dan

Oh, yeah, one of my roll holders is a hybrid, fits both Graflex and Graflok back. Some were made like that, keep an eye out.

45PSS · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:02 am Post subject:

Henry,
look closely at the picture in the linked photos of the camera back with the focus panel off and held close to the back opening. There are no hooks on the panel or pins on the back to hold it in place. Also note the film opening side of the sliders are straight not notched like the Graflok sliders are.
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I have seen one Graflex SLR that had two flat movable bars on its Graflex back that by all appearances was factory, not a modification.

Now this one has sliders that look similar to Graflok sliders so is it likely a late factory design change.
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Dennis, the film plane of a Graflex holder is further back than a Graphic holder. The Graflex RFH appears to have a thicker base than a standard Graphic RFH. I would need to have a copy of each to measure and verify.

Perhaps someone can measure theirs with a caliper between the light trap ribs or between the outer rib and darkslide.

On a Graflex SLR I made an adapter out of 1/4 inch Baltic Birch Plywood to hold a Graphic film holder/RFH on the Graflex back. Once the difference in film plane position is known a shim could be easily made to adapt the Graphic to the Graflex. The Graflex holder is also wider in 3x4 and 4x5 formats than their Graphic counterparts.
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The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

DenisP · Joined: 14 Oct 2002 Posts: 43 Location: Croatia, Europe

Thanks for the info...

The problem is that I don't have a 2x3 Graphic roll back to verify if this would indeed be possible

I guess I'll have to be patient, and either get a proper Graflex back, or find a reasonably priced Graphic one, and try to cobble something up...

Thanks,

Denis

Henry · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 1:16 pm Post subject:

45PSS · Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:01 pm Post subject:

Don't feel bad, I didn't catch it at first and took a second look 30 minutes later. My first impression was Graflok sliders had been put on a Graflex back.
_________________
The best camera ever made is the one that YOU enjoy using and produces the image quality that satifies YOU.

1banjo · Joined: 16 Nov 2008 Posts: 492 Location: kansas

Denis
it would be easer to just get a Graflok back to use

one off of a baby speed or little crown as they are the some back
and as Dan said there are some hybrid, fits both Graflex and Graflok back
as to the Grafmatic is all so a hybrid fits both Graflex and Graflok back

as to making one to work YES it can be done on 23s only 3 1/4 x 4 1/4 &
4x5 it can't be done as the graflex is wider!!
But as in the 23s they are the same size you could make one work
But route a groove in it to deep would would be bad!!
SO you need to be carful!!

DenisP · Joined: 14 Oct 2002 Posts: 43 Location: Croatia, Europe

Well, I finally managed to find a reasonably priced Graphic 2x3 back, and the planned modification should not be too difficult.
The backs are the same size (2x3), and I just have to file down the existing two ridges (shouldn't be too difficult) and route a new groove between them, in the precise location where my original Graflex back has one.

However, this will probably require some precision machining: luckily, I have a friend who has a mill & lathe, and who will be able to do this without much trouble - and very precisely. So far so good

DenisP · Joined: 14 Oct 2002 Posts: 43 Location: Croatia, Europe

Well, in the meantime I happened to get a Mamiya ProS back (6x7 for Mamiya RB, I presume) for free from a friend, and after a bit of fiddling, I managed to hack it and attach it to my Miniature Speed (2x3) with Graflex back.

Since Mamiya backs (at least the parts which have to be hacked) are mostly plastic, it was actually done in one afternoon. Some filing, a bit of sanding (!?), and it fits and locks properly - and it's attached snugly.
I love those Mamiya backs - unlike Graflex backs, they show whether the shot has been exposed, the winding action is much better/easier, and the film flatness should most likely be improved compared to the ancient 6x9 knob-wind Graflex back I have.

In short, I'm surprised how easy it was: using only hand (non-powered) tols.
So, now I also have a 6x7 back for my Mini Speeder - yet to be tested with film, but I don't see any reason why there should be any problems...

WilsonLaidlaw · Joined: 17 Nov 2013 Posts: 13 Location: E. Sussex, UK

I have a 2” x 3” Century Graphic (2.8- 80mm Tessar), with a Graflok back, which currently has the late model type RH-10 lever wind 6cm x 7cm 120 film back. I would like to get an RH-8 6cm x 9cm 120 film back. Sadly I just missed one on Fleabay France. There are plenty available in the 4” x 5” Graflok back but the ones for the 2” x 3” Century Graphic seem rarer. My question is does the 4 x 5 plate remove from the RH-8 and leave a 2 x 3 Graflok RH-8 or is the 4 x 5 plate an integral part of the film back? Alternatively do the Horseman 6 x 9 backs fit?
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Wilson

Dan Fromm · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 2144 Location: New Jersey

Short answer, no.

Look on ebay.com (none there just now), check with keh.com (no RH-8, several Graphic 23s), and be patient. Your ship will come in.

The Horseman backs are very attractive but don't fit.

You might also read the speed graphic FAQ on this site and then, if the idea appeals, look for an adapt-a-roll 620 roll holder to fit 2x3 press cameras on ebay.com.

WilsonLaidlaw · Joined: 17 Nov 2013 Posts: 13 Location: E. Sussex, UK

Dan Fromm · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 2144 Location: New Jersey

The trick is to respool exposed film from the 620 take up spool to the 120 spool it came from. That's what a changing bag is for. A small pain, but I do it.

WilsonLaidlaw · Joined: 17 Nov 2013 Posts: 13 Location: E. Sussex, UK

Dan Fromm · Joined: 14 May 2001 Posts: 2144 Location: New Jersey

Shells and inserts interchange freely.

I have a shell marked Graflex/General Precision RH-8 on the front with a back that says Graflex above and 120 Roll Holder below. Its insert is knob wind. The front plate has pin rollers. I have no idea whether it was pieced together from parts or left the factory that way. I have a similar RH-12 with lever wind insert. Evidence that both are original.

In the beginning there were Graflex 23 (fit Graflex SLR and Graflok backs) and Graphic 23 (fit only Graflok backs), then there were Graflex 23 (fit only Graflex SLR) and Graphic 23 (fit only Graflok backs). I'm not sure what came after them, eventually came RH- roll holders marked RH- on the back.

Roll holders that fit Graflok backs have two ridges on the right side of the gate. Roll holders that fit Graflex SLR and Graflok backs have a ridge on the right side of the gate and a groove towards the right end. Roll holders that fit only Graflex SLRs have no ridge to the right of the gate and a groove towards the right end.

RH-8s were made by Graflex (General Precision), Graflex (Singer) and Graflex (SubSea). If the Graflex/SubSea RH-8 I have is good evidence, they're disasters to be avoided.

The AAR-620 isn't tricky. Just count clicks as the film is wound. Four clicks = one frame.