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djon · Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 174 Location: New Mexico

On another thread my understanding that the film developer pyro causes Parkinsons symptoms was called an "old wives tale."

In 1970 or so I first heard about pyro from Minor White students (RIT teacher), saw the beautiful results (similar to Rodinal or Neofin).

It was said by others that deaths of Weston and Bourke White from "photographer's disease," the result of Pyro. Black fingernails were evidence that something toxic had happened to them. But others said the link to pyro was an "old wives' tale."

Two of those Minor White students, my friends, died with Parkinsons' symptoms.

RIT's creative photo program owes photography a followup study on its students.

If you're using pyro I suggest you review your confidence in its safety.

Visit Parkinsons.org and look under "The Case of the Frozen Addict." The home-brew drug, "ecstacy," when made wrong, directly produces Parkinsons symptoms. That bad chemistry is similar to pyro. Be careful.

t.r.sanford · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:29 pm Post subject:

I haven't used pyrogallic acid as a developer, though one of these years I hope to do so. In my youth, the stuff was well-remembered, and had an evil reputation for thoroughly staining the hands of people who used it. My guess is that wearing rubber gloves and taking the usual precautions would be a good idea, whether or not it has some mysterious link to Parkinson's Disease.

djon · Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 174 Location: New Mexico

Rubber gloves make sense.

It's also easy through contact over time to create nasty allergic reactions to various photo chemicals, such as in common paper developers.

Back in the 70s I researched alternatives to pyro...Rodinal was similar (sharp, didn't dissolve grain, created a distinct "edge effect"). Neofin, was also sharper than common developers but didn't have the edge effect. Both are sold by J&C.

RichS · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:55 pm Post subject:

simply do some research...

See:

http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/498792.html

and many others... It comes up now and then and goes away just as fast...

David A. Goldfarb · Joined: 03 Sep 2004 Posts: 142 Location: New York City

Black fingernails are usually a result of amidol, not pyro, though pyro can also discolor fingernails to some degree. If you put your fingers in amidol, they'll turn black eventually, and it's very tough to get out, but this is just a staining effect, not the result of amidol absorbed into the blood stream and causing one's nails to grow in black. Amidol will also make your trays and everything else black. Wear gloves or use tongs, and it's easily avoided.

Henry · Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:21 pm Post subject:

In my personal library is a scary little book entitled "Health Hazards for Photographers," by Siegfried and Wolfgang Rempel (New York, 1992, ISBN no. 1-55821-181-0). On pages 79-80 one finds the following: Pyrogallol (Pyro) (Use with extreme caution). Pyro was in use as early as 1850. It is also known as pyrogallol and incorrectly as pyrogallic acid. Commercial trade names include Piral and Pyro. Its chemical name is pyrogallol or 1,2,3-benzenetriol. Skin contact: toxic--can cause severe allergic reaction and severe irritation; easily absorbed through the skin. Eye contact: toxic--can cause severe irritation. Inhalation: toxic--causes severe acute poisoning. Ingestion: toxic---can be fatal. If heated to decomposition, can emit acrid smoke and irritating fumes. Requires fume hood, dust mask, goggles, plastic apron and sleeves, and rubber or plastic gloves....

In fact, most of the chemical stuff found in darkrooms is not benign. In the bad old days daguerreotypists sensitized their silverplated copper sheets with the fumes of iodine, and developed the image in the presence of mercury fumes. It's a wonder they weren't all killed in the process.

After years in the darkroom, I'm much happier letting the lab develop my C-41 and E-6 films, while I merrily scan the negs and print away on the Epson.

djon · Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Posts: 174 Location: New Mexico

If a person's happy trusting a photo website for their medical information, best of luck to them. Anything there about weight loss?

Even the most blinkered photogs should recognize that Pyro is far more dangerous than most other photochemicals...

Just for kicks, learn a little about the Parkinsons syndrome, the graveyard through which some are whistling

[ This Message was edited by: djon on 2004-12-13 13:30 ]

Henry · Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 1:09 am Post subject:

Well, I hear that death is a sure-fire way to lose weight, so if you imbibe some of the chemicals in that book I referenced, your weight problem will vanish---guaranteed! And I just saved you the price of an office visit, too.

[ This Message was edited by: Henry on 2004-12-14 07:03 ]

RichS · Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 2:42 am Post subject:

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

I don't think I've seen anything that makes negatives that are as nice as a good PMK Pyro negative. It's common sense that you should wear gloves, don't suck the stuff up your nose and don't drink it. It's not any worse than anything else in the darkroom when used properly. It will cause liver failure if you absorb enough of it but the same holds true with certain beverages.

_________________
Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

TimKean · Joined: 15 Dec 2003 Posts: 24 Location: Missouri

Don't drink it? That's why I use T-Max RS instead of Pyro or Rodinal. If I get thirsty while I'm developing some negs, I just take a big ol swig. Mmmm mmmm. :eek:

[ This Message was edited by: TimKean on 2004-12-14 05:28 ]

Henry · Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:08 pm Post subject:

Hey, maybe this is the way for Kodak to revive its fortunes! Are you listening up in Rochester? Get the marketing guys on this ASAP---there's still time to develop (pun intended) some Kodak Christmas Cheer drink recipes.

RichS · Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 3:36 pm Post subject:

I've read the stories of people developing film in coffee and tea. Anyone want to try eggnog?

glennfromwy · Joined: 29 Nov 2001 Posts: 903 Location: S.W. Wyoming

The coffee recipe works but I can't understand for the life of me why anyone would want to do it. Have you seen the price of Folger's crystals these days? Not only that, the nasty tasting instant coffee ruins the flavor of the carbonate.

_________________
Glenn

"Wyoming - Where everybody is somebody else's weirdo"

RichS · Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject:

Well, if I had some instant coffee, and had a choice of what to do with it... I would deffinitely try the film developing over drinking it!

I always wondered it would tint the neg brown? And if it works on negs, why not prints? You could get a print with automatic 'sepia' toning